Controlling Personalities in the Church

I have been doing a lot of reading on various aspects of a problem in church life that surrounds the idea of controlling or manipulative people in the church. I am not qualified as a psychologist or counselor or mental health professional, so I have no desire to diagnose people or label behaviors categorically, beyond what is necessary to discuss a problem dynamic that goes largely undiscussed, to share what I have read and what I have learned from others, and to offer personal observations.

I would also like to see discussion on this, and in order to facilitate discussion on what could be a very touchy topic for some, I am going to suspend one of my usual comment rules. Usually, if I discover that someone has used a fake email for comments, I delete them. However, for this discussion I will not. I only ask that you enter an email that is obviously fake. Use something like anonymous@fakeemail.com. Use any name you want. Feel free to leave comments that enlighten and will help people to understand this type of interpersonal dynamic, but please let's not get into bitter venting. I know the temptation for that is strong if you have been in one of these situations.

So what problem, exactly, am I talking about? The literature on this sort of thing might identify problems like this by various names. You might search the Internet on covert-aggressive behaviors or Narcissistic Personality Disorder on spiritual abuse or spiritual manipulation, on cults or cult-like groups. When considering these various sources of information side-by-side, certain common personality characteristics emerge, and I will be grouping all these things together as I discuss them here. The study and documentation of these things are fairly recent, so the various titles may be referring to different viewpoints of the same problem.

As I read on these things I learned that personality disorders have been defined for only about twenty or thirty years. In that time, very little clinical research has been done in this field, because there has been little hope that such people will cooperate with counseling or benefit from it. More work has been done on helping people to recover from their relationships with these manipulative and controlling people--relationships that can be very traumatic and destructive.

The personality traits that come together in a highly manipulative person are estimated by psychologists to be present in about five percent of the population, though estimates range from one to ten percent. But whatever the actual frequency, it seems we all will come across some people like this at some point. Having a few of these traits to some degree is perfectly normal. After all, we all have to manage other people and gain their cooperation from time to time. However, in some people the controlling behaviors dominate their relationships with other people.

Probably every pastor can relate tales of folks in the congregation that display these traits and the disruptions they can cause. They may try to run the church from the pew. I can remember in a church I attended as a youngster that  a pattern emerged in which families would come to the church for a while, attend regularly, seem interested in joining and then suddenly disappear. The elders decided to investigate, divided up the list of families, and went on personal visits to find out why each family had stopped attending. What they found out was that a couple in the church had taken it upon themselves to visit each of these families and let them know why they were unsuitable for membership. The reasons given were based on such things as racial and class prejudice or a lack of conformity to their unwritten rules, such as hairstyles and dress. Humiliated and traumatized, these families just quietly went away. The couple that had notified these families of their unsuitability was also the same couple that, when the new pastor came to the church, greeted him with the notice that they had been at this church since it was formed and if he had in his mind to make any changes, he needed to check with them first.

Even more problematic, though, is when the controlling personality in the church is a member of the pastoral staff or the lay leadership. The lay couple I described above had no authority in the church, though they apparently thought they did. Most people in the congregation were able to simply ignore them when they became obnoxious. But a pastor or church officer does have real authority, and where there is real authority, there is the possibility of abuse or misuse of that power. There is also the opportunity to shape the culture and group dynamic that prevails in that congregation.

I think it is important to note that a manipulative leader can create a cult-like dynamic in a church that is not cultish or heretical in its doctrine, but rather well within the range of what would be considered the historic Christian faith. There may be an unbalanced emphasis on certain doctrines, such as an attitude that emphasizes works at the expense of grace, or an emphasis on such things as submitting to authority and giving financially to the church in a sacrificial way.

On the next post on this topic, I will write about the warning signs that we can look for when looking for a new church, or evaluating one we have already joined. In this post, though, I want to discuss the common characteristics of a controlling personality.

The Characteristics of a Controlling Personality

Note: I will be using male pronouns here, but that is not meant to imply that only males possess this kind of personality. Some researchers say it is more common in males, but I suspect the feminine version of this problem may be less recognized and less studied, and therefore under diagnosed.

Projects a grandiose image: This is one of the defining characteristics of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. The grandiose image may be a cover, though, for a deep-seated sense of inadequacy, unlovability, and insecurity. Psychologists speak of a grander self being created by the insecure person, first to please or deceive others, but eventually they believe the lie themselves. Others maintain that the narcissist sincerely believes to his core that he is a special person deserving adoration and praise. Whichever the case, this kind of person presents himself as a hero. He will entertain you with tales of how he defeated this or that foe, stood against tyranny, heresy, etc. In the church these "hero tales" often take on a religious tone. When he runs up against troubles, he is standing against the devices of Satan. When others oppose him, they are opposing him because they hate righteousness or hate the truth. He will also emphasize his accomplishments and abilities, his credentials, and his acquaintances with well-known people. He expects to be treated with deference and to be given VIP respect, though he often commands this kind of deferential treatment in subtle ways. For some reason you just know that when he enters a room and sits down, he will not be pouring his own coffee, but you should be getting it for him.

A lack of empathy for others: A manipulative person is very adept at predicting how people will react in given situations, and knowing what they want to hear or what it will take to get them to do what he wants them to do. He is a student of human nature, and may know your reactions better than you do. However, he lacks the ability to really understand or identify with the feelings of others. He may treat people badly and then be surprised that they are hurt and won't talk to him when next he calls. He cannot identify with another point of view. Psychologists theorize that because of a lack of emotional attachment, this empathy failed to develop as it normally does in the first five or so years of life. If they are correct this may explain why narcissistic people often have at least one narcissistic or abusive parent.

Combine these first two traits and you have a person who can seem to be a godsend when you have suffered a loss. The conquering hero is able to ride in on his stallion and be a paragon of strength when you are at your weakest. He does not fall apart with the gravity of the situation and the sadness of your loss. That's because he can't identify with it or feel it. Rather, he remains steady and strong--and let's you know what you ought to do at a time when you need someone else to think straight for you.

Inability to express some emotions: The narcissistic person does not feel emotionally the way others do. While he may be able to passionately express a vision for a church mission in a very inspiring way, he will not convincingly express genuine tenderness, compassion, or love. There is little acceptance of weaknesses in others. Even expressions of love toward spouse and children tend to be related to his own image as a spouse or parent.

There is a particular hardness toward people who are struggling with mental health or relationship issues. The solution for parenting problems is more use of the rod or casting the troubled teen out of the home and out of the church. The solution to marital problems is for the husband to make his wife submit. The solution to problems with depression is to repent of your sins and shape up. It is easy to see how destructive such advice can be to an emotionally vulnerable person or an already troubled relationship.

Paranoia: This kind of personality is suspicious of others, and quite certain that there are those who are focusing their time and attention on thwarting him and destroying his person and/or his ministry. People who disagree with him or refuse to be manipulated by him are assigned wicked motives. These suspicions begin to be wear thin once the listener realizes the number of people who are said to be "out to get him," is quite large, and the reason for their alleged plotting is unclear or stretches credulity.

He is also convinced that people are thinking and talking about him constantly. He is likely to want to know who you had over for dinner, and what you talked about. He might come close enough to a conversation to be able to overhear it. He might acuse people of meeting together secretly to conspire against him. Perhaps Carly Simon had this sort of person in mind when she sang, "You're so vain, I bet you think this song is about you. Don't you? Don't you?"

Preoccupied with appearances: Manipulative or narcissistic personalities are very attentive to appearances--more attentive, in fact, than they are with reality. It is more important to seem to be holy than to be holy. They may want to project an image of wealth, accomplishment, and even Christian humility and zeal. They will speak the words that make listeners believe there is a sincerity of heart that is not really there. When they speak of the church or its ministries, idealized claims are made of the holiness of the people, the harmony of the relationships, and the success of its missions.

Projection: The manipulative person is living a lie. He is trying to hold up this grandiose image to others, while denying the real image he has of himself. In the process of struggling with his own shortcomings or sins, he projects these things onto others. Does he lie? Then he accuses others of lying. Does he think he is weak or stupid or envious? Then he accuses others of these things.

Lying: This kind of person is constantly lying, and soon lies become as natural as the truth. They lie without batting an eye. They lie when it isn't necessary. They will lie to you about things they know you witnessed with your own eyes. It is as if they are constructing a new reality as they speak, and they expect you to just go along and play your part in the unfolding drama.

Undeveloped sense of humor and sense of irony: This relates to a lack of empathy. They hate being the butt of a joke or prank. They can't laugh at themselves. They don't laugh spontaneously or get jokes easily, especially if there is irony involved. When their own words or behavior is somehow ironic, they often don't realize it. They consider humor to be undignified. In general you will probably find that he is not the kind of person you can relax with and have a good fun time.

Inability to Grieve: This also relates to lack of empathy and lack of emotion. At a time of tragedy or great sorrow, the narcissistic person is unable to grieve and may chide others for doing so, by suggesting that they are failing to submit to the judgment of God.

Someone related to me their experience with this kind of person as he reacted to the terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001. "Our reaction was not to be one of sorrow. When we prayed together and I asked God to comfort our sorrows and the sorrows of the victims' families, I was corrected. I was told I should only be repenting of national sins that brought on this obvious judgment of God."

Flatterers and flirts: "You're my kind of people." "I can confide something in you I wouldn't say to everyone." "Our church needs more people like you." Manipulators use flattery to their own ends. Charming and flirtatious behavior is just another form of flattery. If we weren't such prideful creatures this sort of thing wouldn't work. But it does.

Over-loving treatment of newcomers or new acquaintances is used as a technique to groom them for future compliance. 'Confidential' information is used to provide a proper framework for evaluating future events. For example, you might be told that that so-and-so is dishonest and jealous of the pastor. Then, in a few weeks, when you hear there is a disagreement between so-and-so and the pastor, you see this as confirmation of the 'confidential' information and you are predisposed to think it must be so-and-so's fault. You may also find that the unfavorable view of so-and-so is shared by many people in the congregation, which you may take as further confirmation of it, though the real reason for that may be that the 'confidential' information wasn't so confidential after all, but was shared in the same flattering way with anyone who was willing to listen.

Black and white thinking: This also relates to a lack of empathy. The narcissist seems to think everyone is seeing things exactly as he is. To him the truth is so clear. There is only one answer. Only one right way to go. If anyone claims a different opinion, he reasons they must be denying the obvious truth for wicked reasons. This leaves him totally unable to compromise or live with differences of opinion.

Craves admiration or attention: Though the grandiose image that is projected seems to say the manipulator feels he is better than others, he seems to crave and thrive on the praise and admiration of these 'inferiors'. He requires hugs and pats on the back, and if you don't bring up what a fine job he did on something, he will ask for compliments or mention it, modestly of course, himself. If he cannot be admired in a positive way, he will settle for being feared or reviled by his 'wicked persecutors'. Some researchers refer to this as a need for attention as a need for 'narcissistic supply'. This refers to a craving for a strong emotional reaction--either positive or negative--from others. For him, the absolutely most distressing thing is to be ignored or forgotten.

Denial, diversion and blame-shifting: If you ever bring up a concern for the behavior of a manipulative person, you will likely leave the encounter confused, feeling guilty, and wondering if the whole thing was your fault. You may be frustrated by your inability to keep the conversation on topic so you can address the problem you came to discuss. You may find you need to defend yourself. Anyone bringing a complaint or criticism publicly is likely to become a target of personal attack and character assassination. People who are not wise to his wiles may be manipulated into joining in on the attack, thinking they are joining in a just cause: defending the man of God against the attacks of Satan.

One person told me, "When I go to her and try to tell her that what she is doing is wrong and making things worse, it is like looking into a fun house mirror. All reality is distorted. I feel confused. Then a day or so later, I think back on what was said, the truth becomes clear, and I can't believe I had stepped so easily into her fantasy world."

When his back is up against the wall, the manipulator will admit and apologize for small things, often with accompanying excuses or implications that it was really someone else's fault, or someone else's sins were far greater. Nonetheless, he will be magnanimous and repent for the sake of peacemaking.

Subtle or covert aggression and manipulation: The manipulator is a master at subtlety. The victim of his aggression or manipulation is left knowing or suspecting that this is the case, but often unable to point to specific examples or convince a third party that they have been wronged.

Manipulators also get other people to do their 'dirty work' and thereby keep their own hands clean. Suddenly six members of the congregation write you letters or confront you about your alleged poor treatment of the pastor. They all use similar wording and reasoning. Did they all come to this conclusion independently and independently formulate the same arguments and phrases for expressing it? Probably not. Did the pastor suggest to all these people to confront you on this? Probably. Will you ever be able to prove that to a third party? Probably not.

Name-dropping and claiming the support of others: The narcissist is keen to identify himself with big-name people, and therefore is likely to engage in a good deal of name-dropping and claim intimacy with famous people. These may be exaggerations of a real acquaintance or pure fantasy, though if there is real opportunity to get to know a famous person, they are likely to have taken advantage of it.

Claims that others--famous or not--agree with their point of view are used to bolster their argument, as if it could not stand on its own. "I spoke to so-and-so about this and she agrees with me that you are in the wrong," or, "Several people in the church came to me concerned about what you are doing." The others may be named or unnamed. When they are named, you may find that the named person claims to have no recollection of any such conversation.

Selective inattention: Complaints or concerns made to the manipulative person may be simply ignored, or the manipulator may play dumb and pretend to have no idea what you are talking about. He may claim letters or emails were never received, or that he thought so little of them that he had forgotten about them.

If you remember that the worst thing that can happen to a narcissist from his point of view is to be ignored, you can see how pretending to not even remember your expression of concern can be meant as an insult or a power play. He assumes you covet attention from his exalted person, and he is punishing you by withdrawing it. The truth is, though, that most people in any kind of relationship with a narcissistic person wish he or she would ignore them more often.

No hobbies or amusements: Most people have something they like to do in their spare time for enjoyment. Perhaps they are woodworkers or crafters or enjoy poetry or birdwatching. Narcissistic people have little interest in anything that does not add to or enhance their grandiose image. Perhaps they work out or play at working out and claim athletic prowess. Perhaps a woman will participate in  sewing or handcrafts that enhance her supermom image. Generally, though, there will be a lack of activity in non work-related interests pursued for the sheer joy of it.

So does some of this sound familiar? I'd be interested to hear your comments. Please, though, be careful to change information enough to assure that people you write about cannot be identified. The goal here is to understand the problem, not vent our bitterness.

Next time, I will post on some warning signs that might clue you in that a controlling or narcissistic person is shaping a church's social dynamic.

UPDATE: All posts in this series can be found here: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.
 

Comments

[repenting]

Thank you. This has been painful to read because I see some of these patterns in my life and in the lives of two people close to me.

I'm involved in a women's study class about the life of David. In the course of that study, we have discussed many things, including praying for God to reveal sin in our lives to us clearly.

I've just gotten my answer.

[Mike]

I would be interested to know the source of your descriptions and explanations of narcissism: it seems to follow Kernberg more than Kohut, which means it is more in line with DSM-IV than other theories of narcissism.

I think it's important to make a few other points here, too. First, there is a significant difference between those with Narcissistic Personality Disorder (which you have outlined above) and simply having a narcissistic style. One of my favorite books on the subject begins with the sentence, "Some of my best friends are narcissists." And so are mine, if we are talking about style rather than disorder.

Second, we will all find ourselves in the laundry lists of DSM-IV or such as you have provided. The thing about the disorder, however, is that there is not only the presence of these features categorically but dynamically: they join together to create a hurtful personality. It is fascinating to see how each one operates; it is very difficult to dismantle them. Think 5-7 years, and then only if their pain motivates them.

Third, I fear you have created a caricature of the typical narcissist. My experience, both professionally and personally, is that they are much too insidious and clever to openly demonstrate the kinds of behaviors you describe. The true narcissist differs little from a psychopath except that the former has a conscience whereas the latter does not. Psychopaths are masters at reading and manipulating others - especially us psychological types - and narcissists are not far behind.

There is also a difference - a major difference - between a successful narcissist and a collapsed narcissist. The former are "on their game" while the latter appear to be one of the most genuinely pitiful creatures on the planet. But puff a little air into the collapsed narcissist's self-esteem balloon and you'll see that their grief was only for their lost grandiosity.

There is much more that I could say about narcissism, but there are books for that purpose. Suffice it to say that narcissists are complex, three-dimensional people not always easily identified or controlled.

I can't wait until you get to Borderline Personalities!

[Jackie]

It is an illusionary, disconnected existance. Pitiful. For many years, I have witnessed the surreal drama with a close family member.

Looking forward to next blog.

[Dory]

repenting, I think you are right that some of this is present in most healthy people, and sometimes it is healthy, and sometimes it is sin. As I read about this I discovered that I used some manipulative techniques sometimes when dealing with children that I would never think to use with adults. Awareness helps us to keep these things in check through repentance and the help of the Holy Spirit of God.

Mike, I am trying to describe a general problem from a layman's perspective and avoid the diagnostic angle to all this, though I know it can't be completely avoided. I think it is probably not helpful for non-professionals to attempt to diagnose a manipulator as anything beyond a manipulator. After all, we don't have to treat him or her; we have to deal with them.

I know of one situation in which a great deal of emotional energy was spent deciding whether a controlling person was a psychopath or if he had Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Why does it matter to someone other than his counselor? What matters to you is that he is waging a gossip campaign against your reputation.

I understand that those with personality disorders often receive mixed diagnoses anyway, that is, they are determined to be both NPD and Paranoid PD, for example.

I guess my aim here is not to help laymen diagnose a person, but to help people become aware that the problems they are encountering are due to their being manipulated. You are right that these things are very subtle, especially at first, and you can get sucked in without realizing what is happening. (Though every example I gave is a real-life example fictionalized enough to protect privacy.) Once you are aware of it, though, you can react better and work on healing from any damage that was done.

I want to make one other comment, by the way, on controlling behaviors vs. a controlling personality--especially to the ladies. Didn't we do a lot of this stuff on the elementary school playground? Didn't we turn the cold shoulder, accuse, gossip, and guilt-trip our little friends to get our way? Hopefully we grew out of these prevailing sins of our youth, but sometimes they linger on. Perhaps someone suffering from a personality disorder cannot easily abandon these things--because they have no other resources from which to draw--but the rest of us ought to self-examine on these things and repent. We can do great damage to our loved ones and our relationships if we persist in them.

[John Schroeder (Blogotional)]

Dory:

Just a couple of comments 1) I like your non-clinical non-diagnostic approach. I like you have seen enormous amounts of time wasted with amatuer disgnosis when there was a very real problem to be solved either in the pew or in the pulpit.

A very wise businessman once told me "first you fire them, then you help them." His point was get the problme out of the organization and then use the resources of the organization to help them, that meaning the diagnosis is necessary for the treatment, but it does nothing whatsoever for the organization.

2) I agree that these personalities can manifest in non-cultic or heretical situations; however, I think these personalities are a very strong argument for more mainline church. The mainline churches provide for better monitoring and control for this sort of thing -- though they are growing increasingly bad at it.

In more mainline churches such personalities are usually spotted and helped, or if beyond help, abandoned. While in the more independent church models they thrive, and are often quite successful, at least by some standards. I have seen whole churches, and countless lives ruined by this situation.

I hope you can talk about solutions as well as helping spot the problem.

[Jason Dollar]

I really appreciate the labor and research that went into this post. I was convicted as I see some of the traits in my own life. I pastor a church, and often I might use "flattering language" for example, when new folks show up. I am not purposefully attempting to manipulate them (I tell myself), but always in the back of the mind is what the future might hold.

Likewise, I have very few non-work related hobbies. Even my blogging, as much as I enjoy it, has the ultimate goal of sending traffic to the Apologetics organization I work with.

Furthermore, there are people in my church and extended families who exhibit many of these traits as well.

It seems that in my own life, the root of these traits is the sin of pride. It is a constant belief that I must be successful, as I define success. That is the complete opposite of total dependance upon God, living for His glory.

I am so happy that I recognize many of these negative traits and I am willing to submit to the Lord's refinement to deal with them. So many people who exhibit these traits are blind to their own depravity and will never seek to ask the Spirit to change them. At least there is hope for broken sinners.

Thanks again, I am looking forward to reading more.

[Mike]

Dory:

If my comment came across as critical of your post, I apologize. That was not my intent. I was concerned about caricaturization, though, since churches are loaded with narcissists. They (we?) are just smoother than people think.

My interest in the source was simply that: interest. I wonder if it's from something I've read or something I haven't read but should. You obviously have pulled together a lot of good, descriptive information and I'd like to use it, too, if possible.

Like John, I am looking forward to following posts. FWIW, I think clearly defined and consistently defended boundaries go a long way to resolving most problems with narcissist (and most other) personality issues.

Again, sorry if I seemed to be attacking.

[Dory]

Mike, I wasn't even slightly offended. Sorry if I sounded like I was.

I added a couple sources to my Christianbook.com list in my sidebar, but they are both well known and you are probably familiar with them. (They are both very good for the non-professional.) I intend to end this series with a list of resources and some reviews, but I have a couple I want to finish reading yet and a couple more on order. There's a lot on the Internet, and I will provide a list of links on those I found most helpful.

Sorry to put you off on that, but I want to take the time to do that right. Maybe the suspense will keep you coming back! (smile)

I've read some on the boundaries concept you mentioned. I think that is a helpful way to think about it. (One of the books on order suggests that tactic, I believe.) I use a similar idea with telemarketers. When they ask intrusive questions I nicely give the standard answer, "We give no information about our family on the telephone." Sometimes I only have to say it once, sometimes two or three times. But even the most pushy salesman or survey taker gets the message eventually, and since I have that answer ready, I am less likely to say more than I want to say.

I think any time we have a response ready for what we will do if he says this or she does that, we are ahead of the game.

[Terry]

This article was right on target for me! I have just walked away from a congregation where 'manipulation' and 'intimidation' were the SOP! I had come to really love my pastor and his wife and staff, but I had to finally accept the painful truth that it was all a show and a front. Their egos were (and still are) the most important thing. Others in the congregation are actually afraid of them and fear the fires of the lake if they step to the left of right of the opinions, wishes, and desires of the clergy and staff. To say nothing of what would happen if they did not faithfully pay their tithes. And if anyone let the pastor know they had come into any large sum of money, the tithe had to be paid DIRECTLY TO THE PASTOR and not go into the regular offering channels. I wish the members were able to allow themselves to read this article, but that, of course, would be out of the question.

And then there were the other members who have learned the art of what I call 'counter-manipulation' that they employed for their own self-preservation. This is in a 'Christian' community! Unbelievable!

I look forward to the rest of your series. This article was like a ministry to my spirit - thank you for allowing yourself to be used for the good of others mental, spiritual, and emotional health.

[The Hippo Critic]

Manipulation and control? It's witchcraft. Google that and find a whole heap more info to get through with some interesting insights.

[Wayne]

Dory, I'm really glad that you blogged on this topic. Spiritual abuse in churches--well, anywhere, really--but for us Christians it is especially about churches--is widespread, sometimes subtle, not easy to detect until damage is done. Any of us can spiritually abuse others, even when we believe we are well intentioned. But the human heart, oh, how deceitful and desperately wicked. Who can know it? Surely, we often do not know our own hearts. But God knows us and wants to keep chipping away at us so that we do not continue damaging ourselves and others.

I think there are probably a number of clues that can cause us to wonder if spiritual abuse is an issue with someone:

1. Always needing to have the last word
2. Not practicing genuine listening
3. "Owning" the church or the group, as, perhaps, a pastor who founded the church, and took it from 10 to 10,000 members and will die as pastor of that church. There needs to be accountability to a church board, elders, whatever, so that even such a pastor who may have a gift of administration will not become a despot, even if he doesn't sound like one
4. Erects barriers to suggestions of change from anyone else
5. Categorical thinking--my way is the only right way
6. A good chance of unmet needs from long in the past--and has not allowed God's grace to touch that need, bring brokenness and humility
7. Rule-oriented rather than principle-oriented
etc.

Such an important topic. I'm sure you could receive dozens of horror stories from people who have been spiritually abused.

Thanks for airing this critical topic.

[Stacy L.Harp]

Dory,

I found this just today and I have to say a hearty AMEN. It's nice to see you touch a subject that many consider untouchable.

I do agree with Dr.Mike on many things, but I would also throw out this idea - The church as an addictive organization.

If you look at the church as a family, then it is very easy to see how family systems theory applies to these congregations, and it's amazing to note the health of the church and how it stems from leadership.

Also, I notice you cite Toxic Faith my
Arterburn, I have this book, and it's good. But something you should know - I used to work for him years ago and he is one of the biggest jerks around - Classic narcissist if I ever met one, and also has a huge ego, and entitlement attitude....arrogant it probably in there too. So just because you cite a good source, doesn't mean the person who write it is any healthier than the words on his page.

[Shiloh]

Thanks very much for this post. It's so accurate in its portrayal of the workings of an abusive church. My family and I left a church like this about three years ago and the exodus was made very painful for us. We were there a long time, though, so I have great sympathy for people who are involved in similar churches and feel trapped. God is so good, though. And he has more than redeemed the time I spent there living for man's approval, instead of God. Keep up the good work!

[WordGirl]

http://moltenthought.blogspot.com/ This is too good not to link to. I'm informing our readers right away. Thanks for the content!!!

Word Girl at MolthenThought II

[tracey]

Wow. Sounds just like the senior pastor at my former church. I've only recently realized that what he subjected me to was, indeed, spiritual abuse.

Thanks for this.

[Kathy]

Dear Dory,
You really nailed this thing! I kept thinking, "Who would put up with this?" And then I remembered-me.
I pray for God to grant us more wisdom to put these sins from us and quickly, before the government legislates against them (or maybe for them?)
Thanks so much.

[DJ]

I have just recently confronted and been expelled from this exact type of controling church. I spent much of my last few months rebuking myself, crying out to God and angry and confused. It wasn't until God had me cry out for justice and reminded me that He was Soveriegn, that the fear/intimidation left me. (Breaking Intimidation John Bevere)I knew what was happening was wrong. I knew what God's word said, and I knew I could not leave afraid and silent! God showed me that He saw what was happening, that I was NOT fighting this battle, He was!

If I could offer any consolation at all, is that God sees the abuse of His sheep. These men and women will be disciplined by God. As Dory said, they can fool people, but God sees their heart. God will judge, avenge, and enforce His discipline on these men and women. God showed me how very serious this "False Shepherding" (Ezekial 34, Micah 2,3 and much of Jer)is! He will rescue His sheep, and set His sheep apart and He will deliver them. To know I have a God who protects me and cares about how I am treated and how His sheep are treated blesses me so much! Please know that God rescued you from this oppression and God's Justice will come forth. I refuse to be afraid, I refuse to be silent, and I refuse to conform to man's standards and forsake God's commands! The manipulation is subtle. Especially if the manipulator is not aggressive.

In my case, our Pastor is has a horrible temper and is known to have horrible screaming fits and rages, all the while hurling insults at his sheep as if they were the enemy and not one they are to take care of!

This church was a "cell church". So the control/manipulation/gossip circle filtered into every leader. I not only knew it was wrong, but had found myself repeating my training. That is was caused all of this to unfold. God convicted me, and then I was able to see it all around me.
My advice is, if you see the "practices" of these things, then get out. God does not want us to learn how to fight this manipulative/anti-christ spirit, he wants us free. Only God can deal with this one. My suggestion is to leave immeadiatly. You may need to confront this and call it straight out to the person's face. Begin to pray for this sin to be repented of or exposed and God's justice to come. You see... I am not the only person at that church who experienced this. New people come in every day.
NO ONE should have to deal with level of hurt and betrayal in the House of God! I do not want anyone to go thru what I went thru, or worse.. Not go thru it and spend their life time bound by the desires of men, hating themselves, thinking they are crazy, going thru the motions and then miss God completely and for all eternity. God is faithful and He cares for us! What if someone mistreated your son or daughter? Would silently allow it to go on? Would you ignore it and pretend you did not see it?? Well our Father in Heaven is so much more a better Parent then we are! How much more does he love us? The Word says we are "The apple of His Eye" In the Hebrew, that saying means 'He protects us from oppression.' He will protect us and will continue to do so. God's grace be with you all!
DJ

[cee Jay]

Sometimes I lay in bed at night and can’t sleep because (au…no words can’t say it) when I think about want kind of stupid stuff I bought into.

Like “Jesus Christ died for you, NOW you owe it to HIM to obey ME (the preacher) for the rest of your life.” And “his gift of life is FREE, but you are going to haft to work for it for the rest of your life or you will not make it to heaven.” The work is entailed by the man with the mic. You can’t ask any question, just do what we say. If you don’t your rebellious, demon possess, ungodly, sinner, not tender to the Lord, usurping God’s man, ect… oh the list is endless.

I have turn this thing upside down I see it for want it is, but I can’t reach my husband, and I can’t stop him from taking my children with him for more lies and intense mind control.

I believe Jesus word in the bible and I know that he said there will be wolf on the inside and dogs on the outside. Boy was he right, if your reading this and think “boy that poor lady.” I want you to know this can happen to you, A cult can get your children, your brother’s, your sister’s, your mother or YOU. Protect your self and the one’s you love with info. And always THINK

Take in all information
Hear all arguments
Intricately sort information
Not adding any bias (so you can)
Know the best answer

Please if your pray, say one for me and my love ones.

CEE JAY

[Jon]

I have been abused by Christians in the manners described above for more than 3 decades. About 3 years ago after a string of abusive relationships with christian women and abusive employers,
I read "In Sheeps Clothing", "toxic parents" and "controlling people" it was then I had an ephiphany. ENOUGH - ENOUGH! I cryed and now I have learned and prayed for discernment and how to avoid and to weed out those types of abusers. I am a spirtual Warrior and would like to start a ministry concerning the issues stated above so I can free those who are so deeply opressed.
Please pray for God to point me in the right direction.....
Thanks...

[Hugo]

Dory,
It is good to have post like this. I experienced spiritual abuse, so I can understand many things about controlling persons.
My first language is spanish and I'm taking your post to share with those who doesn't know english.
I didn't read everything yet. Something that I can add is that in projecting an grandiose image and a lack of empathy for others, they seems to be difficuts to find, always they are busy, at lest your are doing something "wrong."
Thanks for your posts.

[Angel]

I dont have comments but some questions. What kind of spirits would be controlling when in one church all the following apply:
1. The Word preached is rich but members of church are not progressing. Breakthroughs are few and far between;
2. Spouse of pastor controls finances and has a tight reign and inability to trust others in this area; Very little of the church's money goes towards evangelism, meeting needs of widows, orphans etc;
3. Marriages are glaring mismatches almost out of desperation;
4. Most members are young including leadership. The title of Pastor is loosley distributed. Appears to be no prayer involved in the selection of leadership;
5. Decisions often reactionary.
6. Church is like a family business.

[Marie]

I have a controlling personality. I have chosen to join this discussion knowing full well that you will try to help me correct my wicked ways. Please don't think you are smart enough to do that because it will only cause you pain...only God can help and you are not God.

I am not sure how sharing will help you but you wanted an open discussion so here goes.
For the record I am labeled with bipolar personality disorder. I have been on medication for 10 years and in therapy for 15. I have done many bible studies on anger, boundaries, communication, love and tried numerous types of therapy to no succes. I have been corrected over and over again by mentors and leaders in different churches and been told that rebellion is as of witchcraft and that I must repent. Repent of what I say..."I haven't done anything wrong...you are the idiot failing to respond to God's call on your life not me." I have been prayed over for having evil spirits. My salvation has been questioned and my faith scrutinized in unbiblical ways. I have been criticized almost constantly and have certainly not felt accepted or loved in any church setting. I find Christians to be be completely untrustworthy and unable to deal with me in a positive way. I am a Christian. I am saved. I love you but I really don't like you and don't want to be around you because you are weak and don't even recognize it.

When meeting you my first priority is to establish your salvation by listening to you and if you claim to be a believer I will be looking for the fruits of the spirit in your life. If you are truly saved you will not be given much of my time or energy because your eternal destiny is already secure and you do not fit within the framework of the people God has called me to reach out to...those that are truly lost.

If you are not saved you will be my focus until you discover Christ's love or God directs me otherwise. If you are not saved I will determine what needs you have that are not being met so that I might find a way to meet those needs. Those needs can be spiritual, physical or emotional. They are still needs and meeting them is the first step to showing Christ's love to you.

If you are saved and in a position of authority over me you are in trouble. I will scrutinize your life with a fine toothed comb and you will not measure up. I know full well I will be judged with this same measure and have no problem with that. If you do not have ample fruit I will not listen to your guidance whether you are a pastor or the person who cleans the toilets. You do not interest me any more than an ant on a sidewalk for you are not spiritually mature and have no business trying to teach me about the word you are not living out to the extent that I am already doing on a daily basis. You have not made the sacrifices I have made nor struggled with God at the level I have and I am not called to disciple you especially if you already consider yourself smarter than me.

So here is the flip side. You as a Christian have a responsibility to love me, pray for me, and help me. Setting boundaries and rules only challenges me to break them. Failing to keep your committments makes me sick to my stomach giving me additional reasons to distrust you. Your failures glare out at me and your inability to follow the word show me who you really are and you are not pretty. You are not kind, loving, gentle, peaceful or any of the other fruits of the spirit. I see ignorance, lack of wisdom, an inability to make and keep commitments and willingness to serve God at a substandard level. If you are not dedicating 100% of your time to God's work you will not measure up to my standards so you should not even try. In short...I may have to love you but I certainly don't have to like you and I don't have to let you be in a position of authority over me and the fact that I am attending your church simply means that you are being warned that if you don't make the changes you know that God has called you to make then destruction will come.

The reason I cause this destruction is simple. If what you are doing to reach the lost is ineffective or not built on a strong foundation it needs to change. If you are misusing resources or not responding to the people I entrust to your care then you will be corrected. I don't care about church buildings or social activities or committees or your titles. I care about people who don't know Christ. If your priorities are out of wack that has to be fixed and if you have to suffer because you have become a stumbling block to an unsaved person then I have absolutely no problem with that.

This does not mean that I will hurt you physically, or threaten you. I will simply redirect your energies to areas where you can cause less damage so that the path can be cleared for God's work to be done. You are important to the kingdom but you need to go back to the word and study it to an extent that at least allows you to communicate with me intelligently and you need to start showing wisdom in how you respond to the opportunities God give you through me. If you do not respond God will take much more drastic measures and I have seen this happen more than once.

We are called to love on another as ourselves. I hold myself to very high standards and with God's help I am able to acheive those goals and more. I have watched God at work without you and know his power. I respect him and fear him much more than I fear you and I consider myself much closer to God that you are because of the fruit in my own life. If you are in the way of the goal you will be removed and/or redirected until you have improved your skills and polished your gifts.

By the way, I consider my personality a gift not a disorder and just because it does not fit within the framework of the church does not mean that God is not using it for his glory so get out of the way. If you trust God then you know he can work through anyone including me and that he uses what you perceive as a weakness in me to do his work.

[randy]

Help. I am a psych. RN who attends a local church. We have a really crazy lady who comes and lays of the floor, disrupts service, etc. What can be done, legally to stop this maniupulative, anger generating behavior? It is very maddening.

[Carmen]

This is a great article about spiritual abuse, it is very informative and worthy of further recommendation.

I was spiritually abused too, in a Reformed church. That kind of church can be overly authoritative, depending on the individual behavior of controlling pastors. I also know of a Reformed church where I saw genuine Christian reciprocal respect and love in action, each submitting to the other, where the pastor was the most humble and helping person as it should be. He was not unkind nor manipulative in the least. Two extremes in one kind of church.

My testimony of what happened is here: http://www.jamesfive19.com/Abuse_of_Pastoral_Authority.html. Fortunately others were willing to help me in the darkest hour of despair, when that pastor did not offer even an apology, much less consolation.

The church was recommended to me simultaneously by my parents and by a friend who didn't have any idea what could happen. If they had known they wouldn't have sent me there, but the address was (is) online listed with other such churches. Associating pastors with Godly behavior is definitely a naive mistake that I won't make again.

I am redoing my spiritual abuse page in xhtml, I would like to link to yours - the link will be up with the updated page within a week. http://www.jamesfive19.com/Spiritual_Abuse_Links_Resources.html

Thanks for "listening".

Carmen

[Monty Thies]

It's amazing how God points us in the right direction! I came to this site in my search for how to deal with a manipulative, controlling person because I find myself literally going down the tubes because of such a situation in our church. Thank you Dear Lord for pointing me to this site and to those who have posted and to Dory!
I was really looking for insight for myself because I, too, as I now know is a by-product of this "disorder", whether diagnosed or not - was beginning to feel, as the old saying goes, "If Bob has a problem with everyone, then Bob IS the problem"....that perhaps I was the problem and perhaps this person truly is being guided by the spirit and that I am the one who is wrong in my assessment of things. I know now that what I first suspected is true, and that I am not the problem, and that the problem is real and alive and well in our small, new congregation. What I have been largely unable to discern is if it is intentional or if it isn't. However, because of some very subtle (which I now also know is a major factor in these personalities)inferences and goings on - that it is, in this case, absolutely intentional.
Of concern to me is that professionals themselves have great difficulty working with these people in a counseling setting because of the lack of ownership that a problem actually exists. Which, now, causes me concern about to do or even what can be done. I see it very clearly, but as is typical with these types, the damage has really already been done in that this person has,as is typical, managed to get nearly everyone else with the exception of two other members who also recognize what's going on, to view anyone opposing or trying to point out what is going on as "the enemy". And further, because a couple of us actually dared to get in this person's face about an issue last winter, we have been "targeted" if you will. This person has managed in part to "get" one of us and is now on the hunt for me. I know it, I feel it but I am completely defenseless in how to undo it.

Anyway, thanks for putting this out here - I appreciate everyone's posts, and I hope that somehow with God's help I will be able to come to the correct conclusion personally. I have never in my life come across anything that I've recognized as being so absolutely contrary to what is being portrayed as this and am completely devistated by it. God is managing to hold me together for the most part, but it seems each day looks as black to me as the previous day...I truly want to rejoice and be glad, but it's being majorly blocked. In part, I believe it's because I am trying to solve this by myself - so I will make a better effort to let go and let God - I know He is aware of what's going on - I hope and pray that He will do someting soon before it's really too late. We began this church from the ground up a year ago due to issues in our former church, and we are all saying we are bound to the inerrant word of God, but now it appears that while most of us still are, at least one views this as an opportunity, as with everything else they are involved in, to lead - that is more the goal than what our ministry really is and others have been duped. And, as you will all recognize, this person is involved in every single aspect of the church and is the first to volunteer and does absolutely everything and does it well.....so all the accolades go to this person, who also has, as is typical,set themself up as the main spokesperson not only in the community (which is probably part of the reason we aren't growing - the reputation is there as well) but also for others who have health problems or whatever - the same person is always the one making the announcements in church on Sundays etc. etc. etc....I hope at some point others will see the common denominator in our lack of growth, and if we are actually fortunate enough TO grow with this person involved, what the common denominator will be in people leaving -because it will happen.

Thank you for the opportunity to vent - it's therapy!

Thanks again - Monty